I'm sure you guys know FULL WELL how cheesed off I am about this house situation, since I'm even discussing it on my MAIN blog and HANG the risks.
Sometimes marriage is a sucky arrangement. Right now I feel yoked (via old-school neck-yoking oxen yoke, not some hippie double-necklace yoke made out of a daisy chain or whatever) to someone who isn't thinking rationally, and who is covering an almost pathological fear of confrontations with a semi-fake layer of "Doing the Right Thing" (hint: I disagree that it's the right thing for us to support his fully-capable sister) and who is therefore going to have a large and unpleasant impact on our finances, and all I can do is try to lessen the impact---AND have to FIGHT to lessen it.
I feel lucky that I don't feel this way all the time, as some spouses must feel. But that doesn't mean I don't feel unlucky in this particular circumstance. I'd rather NEVER feel like this. In general, I think one spouse shouldn't feel YANKED AROUND by the other spouse or else it starts getting pretty far away from what I think of as marriage.
It's one thing to say I should just tell him this thing, or just persuade him to do that thing, or just explain to him this other thing---but the problem comes when I've explained myself as thoroughly as I possibly can, AND HE DISAGREES. It reminds me of the "wanting another baby" thing---like, how can he continue to take a different stance when I have been SO CLEAR??? The impulse then is to CONTINUE EXPLAINING, but that isn't a plan that tends to, you know, WORK.
Here, too, at some point I will have to stop arguing with him about this. I can only push it so far or repeat myself so many times or restate my point so many ways before it starts to bring problems to the marriage. YES, I should be able to make him see it my way, but that has so far been unsuccessful. I think it's that he's willfully not understanding me, because he can't cope with what he would need to do if he DID understand and agree---i.e., tell his sister she needs to be fair.
And I don't blame him for not wanting a confrontation with his sister: she's like his mom, stubborn and irrational and critical of everyone else. If she sees something a certain way, there is no bringing her around to a different understanding of it. She's 34 and she acts 18. She tried to live like a grown-up after college, but each roommate soon kicked her out. It's HIGHLY likely that if he tried to make her be fair, she'd start throwing out arguments like "YOU have a place to live!!" and "But I can't FIND an apartment!!" or "Come on, YOU don't want to live here!!"
But he didn't have to dig us in DEEPER. When she made a suggestion, he could have said mildly, "No, I'd rather do this other thing" instead of saying "Yes you can live there for free, and how about making it indefinite, and make sure you charge us half for repairs." (Fortunately she hasn't done any yet, preferring to wait until the estate is settled so that she can take the money out of there.)
He had something similar going on in his relationship with his mom: like, just make her happy, with lies if necessary, and maybe she'll GO AWAY. He never notices it just makes people like his moms and sister MOOCH IN HARDER.
The sucky thing with marriage is that there are so many opportunities for an impasse with no good solution. Sure, I could essentially force him to do things my way with his sister, but he would resent it and it would damage our relationship. Sure, he might be able to force me to let him handle it his way, but I would resent it and it would damage our relationship. So now we have to pick our way through this MINEFIELD, and I feel like I'm picking carefully while he's standing on a pedestal of Being Kind to His Poor, Poor Sister and protecting said sister from the Complaining, Money-Grabbing Wife Who Never Even Liked His Mother---when what I'm ACTUALLY trying to do is be FAIR and even GENEROUS, but not to the point of being SUCKERS who get TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF.
The funny thing is, his mom DID kind of go away. Except that she left this ALBATROSS in the form of both this HOUSE and this SISTER. So she isn't REALLY gone.
ReplyDeleteThis is the thing, though. It would be one thing if he wanted to let her live in the house rent-free while you guys basically pretended you didn't own half of it. That would be irksome, but not actually costly. Or it would be another if he were willing to give her the house free and clear just to get it off your shoulders. Again, IRKSOME, and shouldn't be necessary if his sister were grown-up/fair/reasonable/etc., but doesn't actually COST you anything.
BUT. It SOUNDS like what he wants to do is give her not only the house but actual money that belongs to your family. It sounds like whether the house were to be sold or given or whatever, EITHER WAY, he wants to sink significant amounts of your family's money into repairing it. And that is JUST NOT OK. It just IS NOT. You have FIVE KIDS and a MORTGAGE and other living expenses. It is just NOT OK to hand over piles of cash to this person for NO REASON WHATSOEVER. You are right that there is no good solution--but given that one of you will end up being resentful no matter what is done, you MUST come to a solution that does NOT involve giving his sister thousands of your family's hard-earned dollars that could be MUCH BETTER SPENT on your children and yourselves (or, for god's sake, donated to a charity for people who ACTUALLY NEED help, UNLIKE his sister).
So yes, he has a choice here. But his choice should be between a) selling the house as-is and splitting any profit with his sister, or b) giving it to her without ever sinking a penny of your own money into it. THOSE ARE THE ONLY OPTIONS. It is NOT OK for him to think that his mother's estate is somehow a reason for you to give MORE MONEY to his sister. She already HAS an inheritance. She can do as she sees fit with it.
Unfortunately, I do not have a solution to offer you as far as HOW to make him understand and do this, other than just FORCING him and accepting the consequences. The only thing I can think of is, if it's not too late, you could reject the inheritance. This would leave his sister free to ALSO reject the inheritance, should she so choose, and therefore Mike wouldn't have to feel like he is FORCING her to take on the expense of a house that is falling apart.
But, I'm guessing that if this were still possible, you would have already done it. So I don't know. But PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't let him take this illogical madness any further.
When I saw your tweet, I almost replied with "ARE YOU KIDDING ME?" Because really, WTF? I mean you went above and beyond by suggesting giving away your family's half and then you are supposed to GIVE MORE??? No. I mean, just no.
ReplyDeleteThe thing with doing something like this is...it's going to lead to more. If you fix the roof now, and then give the other half to her, I guarantee you in two years time when something like the water heater goes out or whatever, she's going to try and claim it was faulty from the beginning or some crazy shit thing like that. Oh I can just see how this spirals out of control.
The sister is not being fair to the both of you. He is not being fair to you. What they are asking of you is simply NOT REASONABLE.
I was just going to suggest exactly what Jess said. Is it too late for Mike to abdicate inheriting the house? That way his sister gets all of it and you don't have to deal with it. This SO TOTALLY SUCKS.
ReplyDeleteI have zero advise on the house thing, but for the record you're totally in the right and Mike is clearly caught up in confrontation-avoidance to the point of an actual dysfunctional relationship w/ his family.
ReplyDeleteOn the marriage thing, though, I SO get what you're saying. I just kept nodding, reading the first part of this post, about how there's only so many times you can bring something up, even if you KNOW you're being rational and the other person is being a tidge crazy, or YOU become the one damaging the relationship. Our particular issue is: husband starting home/yard improvement projects and then leaving them half done for literally over a year in some cases. And not big projects where it might legitimately take a year; I'm talking aout, for instance, a door that is only halfway installed. Still not shimmed or completely screwed in, nor is there trim up. Not only is it inefficient in terms of heating, it is potentially a burglary hazard. And looks like CRAP, obviously. But he is still dragging his feet about it because it will involve, in the end, buying, cutting, staining, and hanging new trim around the door, which he loathes doing. So he just keeps putting off the whole thing, even as winter approaches YET AGAIN. But I feel if I mention it one more time, BOTH our heads might explode.
What would happen if you contacted your sister-in-law yourself and told her that you were going to give her the house but that you wouldn't pay for any repairs?
ReplyDeleteThere was one situation where my husband kept avoiding conflict with his family, and his family was mooching, mooching, mooching, until I finally went behind my husband's back and ended it. My husband was actually relieved I had taken care of the situation, but I was fully willing to live with the consequences if my actions pissed him off. I think it sounds kind of horrible to go behind your husband's back, and I would never do it unless it was a very last resort.
OK, since my last comment wasn't long enough, I'm back. It sounds to me like he is doing some calculations in his head about how much it is worth to him to avoid this conflict with his sister. And I think the issue is that he is not thinking rationally about the cost to your family of not only giving up your share of the inheritance, but actually sinking some of your own money into this house solely for his sister's benefit. And I am wondering if there is a way to present this concretely to him in a way that forces him to understand that the cost of avoiding this conflict is much higher than he thinks that it is.
ReplyDeleteI am thinking that the way to do this is in terms of your children. Never mind the $10k or so that you could get if you sold the house. Just the money that the roof repair alone would cost will be several thousand dollars. That's a lot of money that could be spent on your children. That's camp tuition, new snow boots, a really great class trip. Not even just "the start of a college tuition fund" but actual clear, concrete, wonderful benefits for your children that will have to be sacrificed if he chooses to spend your money on repairing this house instead.
Do you think THAT line of reasoning might get through to him? To make him understand that it isn't "cost of conflict" vs. "benefit of avoiding conflict" but rather "cost of conflict" vs. "cost of not being able to provide certain nice things for our children"?
As I'm thinking about this, I may have not gone behind my husband's back. I may have told him that he had until X date to end the mooching, or I would do it. And then he continued to permit the mooching, so on X date I sent a polite e-mail to the person so he/she would know mooching was no longer permitted.
ReplyDeleteUgh. I have rolled over on some things, too, when I have concluded that we will never agree and the long-standing disagreement will cause more damage. I get it. But I feel like an essential question is: will you be able to get past it too? Or will you be so upset by the irrational decision, and how it has negatively financially impacted your family, that it will not actually go away? Because that would bring problems to the marriage, too, you know?
ReplyDeleteAnd it seems entirely reasonable for you to say "I am willing to do whatever you think is best so long as we are either not incurring costs or are only incurring them equally with your sister, but once we are talking about outlays of our family's funds for no reason other than feeling bad for your sister, I can't get on board, because that's money we're taking away from our children. I agree your sister needs help, and would love to be able to give it to her, but not at the expense of our own kids. I just can't." Would he hear that?
I have zero practial advice. But this situation of yours is stressing me out. And I don't mean that in a stop-telling-me-about-it way, but in a way where I guess I relate on some level and the fact that I can think of NOTHING to say that is helpful... so I'm just leaving this completely pointless comment to say that I'm out here, thinking of you thinking of this sucky situation.
ReplyDeleteThis is so maddening. I mean, if your husband followed the same reasoning with this matter as he did with the baby matter, you shouldn't have to pay for the new roof. In the case of whether to have another baby or not, the preference went toward the person who didn't want another baby. In the case of whether to help pay for a new roof or not, the preference should go toward the person who doesn't want to spend the money.
ReplyDeleteWow. I would find it hard not to get involved at this point (like Anonymous 4:07 PM). It's all MATH! Surely he must understand the MATH!
ReplyDeleteOption A: Sell house as is, split proceeds. Net gain to the Constance Clan: $10,000. Net gain to sister: $10,000.
Option B: Give house to sister. Net gain: $0; Net Loss: $10,000; Out of pocket: $0. Net gain to sister: $20,000.
Option C: Give house to sister after making major repair. Net gain: $0; Net Loss: $12,500; Out of pocket: $2,500. Net gain to sister: $22,500.
Option B is already WAY generous. I get what you mean about not wanting to rock the marriage boat too hard, but this is nuts and he is wrong.
What makes this even MORE infuriating is that HE WON THE LAST "IMPASSE" aka No More Babies! It is YOUR TURN! Augggggggghhhh.
ReplyDeleteomfg, I...well...I'm just at a freaking loss for words (at least of the type one normally uses in polite company, that is). And I'm feeling rather yanked around by my own partner these days, so maybe the loss for words is for the best right now.
ReplyDeleteInstead I will just say this: I agree a million percent with what Jess (both times) and Anonymous 4:24 and Tess said!!!!
LOL!! So word verification on my last comment was PACKR
ReplyDeleteAs in, tell SIL it is time to start packing, perhaps? ;)
OMG he is outside his mind. I can't even imagine how he thinks his arguments are logical.
ReplyDeleteI think you shoudl tell him that it's your turn to win, and that if he doesn't get his head out of his ass then you aren't going to live with him anymore, because you WON'T be able to.. you'll just feel like a sucker 2 times over.
ReplyDeleteOr you could tell him that if he wants you to shut the hell up about it forever more.. then there's always that "baby" thing.
Here's my advice. Let him present it to her (and make him believe himself) that it is in HER best interest to sell the house. Let's face it, this girl does not sounds like a lawn mowing, leaf raking, gutter unclogging, driveway resealing, carpet replacing, large appliance purchasing type of gal. Does Mike think she'll actually be responsible enough to do the manual labor and save up and pay for the types of expenses that come along with home ownership? That is a lot of ask of a single person household, and an irresponsible one at that. If she does stay in this house, she is going to be OVERWHELMED by the amount of work and money it is going to take. Is she going to have a couple hundrend dollars laying around every time property taxes are due? Is she going to be able pay someone fo replace a roof, or a furnace when it happens? That's a lot to expect.
ReplyDeleteFrom what you've said she sseems like the IDEAL candidate for renting a place to live, not owning. I think if Mike lets her stay in this house he would actually be doing her a disservice by allowing her to be caught up in this kind of financial situation and she will get overwhelmed by debt.
Maybe he could present it to her like this: Susie, maybe you don't realize it now, but this house is going to cost you of a lot of money, probably a lot more than renting a place would. Yes, it's a free house, but there will be so many new expenses and work that comes with it. How about we sell the house, I'll even give you 100% of whatever we get, and you can use the money to pay for an apartment for the next 5 years. There, they'll take care of maintenance and carpet and appliances and things like that for you. Susie, you could even go on a little vacation or get yourself some fancy jewelry with part of the money. That sounds so much better than staying in this old house, right?
The last annonymous commenter made me think of Suze Orman's advice column. I feel like he needs to hear all this straight up from someone besides you (and the increasingly loud and unanimous chorus of the internet!). A lawyer (might be expensive)? A friend (is there someone who you both trust to talk this over with?) I can't help but feel like you need some impartial third party to intervene here.
ReplyDeleteBecause we KNOW that that impartial third party, if they were in their right mind, would agree that his plan makes no sense.
The difference between this and the "wanting baby" situation is that it's likely that an outside person WOULD see this your way. The difference is also that there IS a mathematical way to split it evenly and fairly. So my only glimmer of hope is in the form of the (already suggested and/or considered by you, I'm sure) 3rd party opinion. A lawyer, maybe? Financial advisor?
ReplyDeleteMan, *I'M* cheesed about this. And not just about the money, but about the way I feel when I can't make my husband SEE MY CLEAR LOGIC.
I'm so stressed about this! GAH!
Have you said all of this to him directly? I am asking because I know for me when there are situations in which Known Character Flaws become a sticking point, I sort of lose sight of being direct about that with my husband and instead get madder and madder inside while assuming he is as aware that I am that these patterns of behavior are repeating themselves. (Usually, he is not.)
ReplyDeleteI like a lot of the advice here. But in addition I am imagining you (and maybe you already have) telling him in a calm but direct (maybe even compassionate) voice, that you understand he has a hard time with confrontation, and that this is a very difficult situation, and his sister is so hard to deal with, and yes yes, that is TOUGH, isn't it? But he is sacrificing much financial and mental healthiness of his own family because of these things. And that's not okay. And so you need to figure out something that is going to satisfy the rational and logical, rather than the emotional. And it's going to be tough either way, and there isn't likely to be a solution that leaves everyone 100% satisfied, so why not just make the decision that makes most sense on paper.
(And maybe leave out the part about 'and let's not forget that you have to live with MEEEEEEE and not your sister so maybe WORRY MORE ABOUT ME THAN HER.') (or, you know, leave that in there)
It may not work, but may be worth trying.
You are right on the money with the "minefield" analogy. Marriage can be exactly like that! Wishing you luck!
ReplyDeleteThis makes me kind of livid. Like when I used to watch Everybody Loves Raymond and the MIL would walk all over Ray and Deb and it would make me insane. This is making me feel that way. I kinda want to punch your husband for you. Clearly you are right here. I don't know how he feels about counseling, but maybe he hates the idea and you could insist that you two go to counseling re: this issue to help work through it. Then you could actually go if he agreed to that or maybe he would hate the idea of it so very much that he would see the light and tell his sister to take a hike? Just a though. :)
ReplyDeleteI can see how you feel and how very frustrating this must be. I could write a million things, and am super duper tempted, but that won't change his mind so I'll just say I sympathize and I'd like to kick him for you. And her too.
ReplyDeleteGAAAH! This situation is SOO super annoying, and I'm not even involved!
ReplyDeleteI would second the "If you don't resove this by date X, then I will " idea presented above. Or, you know, suggest that you rent out your current home and then go move in with your SIL so you're getting the "value" out that crap hole. Then everyone is getting the inheritance equally! And hopefully the bizzareness of this suggestion shake some sense into his reasoning for why he's letter her rip his family off.
You know what annoys me the most about this whole thing? It's that you are essentially being punished for bring reasonable. That is, because your husband knows you SIL is an unreasonable pushy jerk and hejust can't deal with that, he would rather do whatever she wants than say "NO". But because he knows he CAN say "no" to you, because you are not an unreasonable pushy jerk, he will. It is simply because he CAN say "no" to you that he does. And that totally sucks. You are being screwed because you are reasonable. F- that.
ReplyDelete