I thought things were going well with the alcohol thing. Whenever I had a drink, I made a "Wheep! wheep! wheep!" alarm sound, as we'd joked about during our discussion. Or I would take the drink to where he was and clear my throat and then drink it in an exaggerated way, and it really seemed to make things more lighthearted, even though I dislike the feeling of being Monitored. I decreased both the frequency and the quantity of the drinking, partly out of consideration for the way it might upset Mike and partly because it was a natural consequence of feeling Monitored.
The problem is, it's still upsetting Mike. He associates "tipsy" behavior with DANGEROUS DRUNKENNESS, despite our talk. So, for example, when I dozed off lightly in the recliner while reading, 15 minutes before bedtime, he was CRYING from the stress and worry of it. I have tranquilizers I could take instead of using alcohol as a tranquilizer, but they make me doze off, too. So does BEING IN THE RECLINER AT BEDTIME.
I don't know what's the right decision here---and by "right" I mean right for me and my household, not for other people and their households. On one hand I'm inclined to NOT upset Mike, obv: he's my husband and I'm fond of him and I don't like to see him upset, and also I think spouses should if possible both make changes that make the household happier for each other, especially if the change is a "doesn't matter either way" change to the spouse making the change.
On the other hand, I like drinking, and I don't think it's in the danger zone at my current level, and I feel like I'm good at NOTICING how much I'm drinking and how I'm reacting to it, and for me this doesn't fall into the "doesn't matter either way" category: I would MIND becoming a teetotaler just because my husband preferred it, just as I would mind becoming a vegetarian just because my husband preferred it. I think Mike is wrong in what he considers A Scary Sign---but of course, me thinking so doesn't change how he feels about it.
I stopped drinking completely after the night where I dozed off, and that seems to reassure him: that I can stop, and then day after day goes by and I am still stopped. But I wish this didn't have to be an ISSUE like this.
Yay! First commenter! I wish I had advice for you, and I just don't. I admire though, the thought that you are putting into this issue and into your marriage. Why did he cry? What are his exact concerns? That you will be an alcoholic? Die of liver disease?
ReplyDeleteI do think that's his worry: that it's out of control, that I'm an alcoholic. He and I should talk more about it but we both resist that kind of thing, sigh.
ReplyDeleteAll I can say is, I relate, my hubs is the same way, and I have no advice because hello, you can stop, and it's no biggie, but you LIKE to have some drinks - as do I - oh, I could just ramble, I hope it is enough to just say, I UNDERSTAND BUT HAVE NO ADVICE :(.
ReplyDeleteOh, and I think any Mom with 5 kids or 3 kids (me) is prone to sit in a dang recliner and pass out on the spot, no matter the hour of the day, the amount of alcohol consumed, etc. I have fallen asleep in the most random places (NO ALCOHOL INVOLVED WHATSOEVER), so the falling-asleep-in-the-recliner incident, in my mind, has nothing to do with ANY OF THIS!!!!
My mother-in-law does not drink. But my father-in-law does and so does my husband and his two sisters. She gets disgusted at summer cookouts when everyone is having a couple beers. She cannot distinguish between one degree of drinking and another. It makes everyone feel as though she thinks that they are alcoholics constantly putting their lives at risk. This leads them to not flaunt it in front of her, which would not work in your situation.
ReplyDeleteI think that how honest you've been about it is very telling that you don't have a problem. I think that Mike simply can't see it any other way but how he does and this leads to . . can he trust you to make a right decision regarding yourself and possibly accept the fact that he is not able to grasp the concept of something he does not choose to do? I think it the monitoring is going to make you feel frustrated and un-trustworthy and it's going to still make him unhappy as long as you're drinking.
I'm not sure what the best way to deal with it is - but if there was some way for him to see the difference between having a drink and being a drunk, that would be what you need.
ReplyDeleteHaving someone monitor your drinking (or eating or whatever) can make you want to hide it, and hiding it can lead to the dangerous behaviors that he is afraid of in the first place.
I agree with Gina.
ReplyDeleteJenny- YES, that sounds like him---that he can't distinguish between one degree of drinking and another, so anyone who drinks at all is an alcoholic or in severe danger of it. Sigh.
ReplyDeleteGina and Artemisia- YES, you're right, it definitely DOES make me want to hide it!
I keep putting myself in your spot as I read these, because I like a glass of wine or a margarita and my husband rarely drinks, and it would infuriate me if he thought I had a problem and I think it would really make me resentful if I felt I had to stop drinking my glass of wine just because HE wanted me to. But, I don't know what I would do about it. Maybe send him an article on signs of alcoholics? urgh. I don't know.
ReplyDeleteI think falling asleep in the recliner is just the sign of being a busy mom, that's all. I fall asleep in front of the TV practically every night.
ReplyDeleteThe only other thing I could think of is... are there any kinds of drinks that Mike would find more socially acceptable? Would he worry so much if it was a glass of wine or a margarita or a beer or a wine cooler maybe, instead of liquor in mixed drinks? Maybe there is something about liquor that seems more hardcore to him?
Maybe you could present him with some options that are not drinking versus not-drinking?
ReplyDeleteYou could bring up that there he obviously still has issues with alcohol drinking that need to be addressed, that you don't want to upset him (with the drinking), but aren't willing to hide it from him as if you're doing something wrong.
Then bring up some ideas for him to consider that could lead to a discussion. Would he be more comfortable if there is a discrete number of times that you drink per week? Would it help if it wasn't "hard" alcohol, would you both be okay with you switching to wine or a liqueur (Kahlua, Frangelico, Bailey's, etc.) that may not seem so scary?
Could you ask him why he's so afraid of you developing an addiction to alcohol? Does he think you have an addictive personality? Has he had to deal with alcoholism before? Does he think that you work way too hard all day and you're looking for an escape through substance abuse? I mean, I get that he's freaked so he's not being rational, but you seem like a pretty together type of person so I don't understand why he's so distrustful of your judgment in this situation.
I think what would piss me off most is that the drinking seemed to come out of the sex issue. Something very important to HIM, which was a constant issue in your marriage. (Perhaps that's part of his aversion, that he's getting it only b/c of the alcohol, which is something he hates?) What would piss me off about that is that if you decrease the drinking, maybe the sexy time decreases too, but he'd likely be upset about that and maybe that issue would rear its ugly head again. Damned if you do, y'know?
ReplyDeleteThey make personal breathalyzers. Amazon has one for $29.99. Seems to me that could be a way for someone to distinguish between states of drunkenes. Like after waking up the other night, when faced with his crying worry, you could have blown into that thing and said "Look! I can still drive in all 50 states." It could even help you make sure about your own level of alcohol use, like an uninterested third party's opinion. (Uninterested third party machine, that is.)
I'm totally stumped, especially because I thought that the drinking was helping with the sexy time, but obviously from his point of view it's not helping as much as it's hurting.
ReplyDeleteTotally totally frustrating. I wish there was a Book with Answers for stuff like this.
I have two ideas:
ReplyDelete1) Get a list from a trusted source of signs of alcoholism and go over it with him, pointing out how ridiculous he is being and how his monitoring (whether meaning to or not he IS) is actually FORCING your normal behavior to become ABNORMAL.
2) Have him match you drink for drink some night. One problem may be that he doesn't drink. He may not like it, but if he can match you and see how HE feels at the number of drinks YOU have, he may go "oh, I'm a douche." I think it's a fair sacrifice for him to drink to help him relax and understand you.
Welp. I know you didn't really want to hear about what would work in other people's households...but! Here's some assvice. Delete at will.
ReplyDeleteI am more likely to be Mike in this situation. Mostly because of my personal history and terrible fear of addicts. Yup, I would be the freaker-outer in this situation. If my husband were using any substance more than I was comfortable with, I would want him to stop, even if it were an irrational fear, even if in my HEAD I KNEW it was really NOT a problem for him. Even if I knew the problem was mine. I cared about the consumption. I was freaking out about the consumption. Not him. Me.
Is this wrong? Probably. Would I care? Probably not. If his consumption issue was really not that big of a deal, then it shouldn't be that big of a deal to stop when it is such a big deal to me. And I am a rational person. Perhaps after the behavior has stopped, we could later revisit it when the "threat" didn't seem so imminent.
(Note: I really am talking about myself and this has very little to do with you and I have absolutely no judgements on your decisions. Please don't stop being my buddy. Amen.)
I'd like to add a vote for "get him tipsy."
ReplyDeleteI dated a teetotaler guy in college, and having been a goody two shoes in high school myself, I went along with his preference for most of our three years together, never drinking in front of him or talking about having drunk elsewhere (even for things like holiday dinners at my parents'). I started drinking more as we broke up. He was sure I was going straight down the tubes into addiction, but it was just that I was returning to my natural preferences, you know, the ones that didn't cater to him, heh. We had a number of nasty fights about it (the breakup took a while to go through.)
But several years later, we ran across each other, and he wanted to apologize for it. It turned out that he had been terrified because he'd had no idea what it was like other than what the PSAs warned about, and having a chance to see for himself, in a safe place with supervision, that he could pinpoint his level of drunkenness (tingly lips means tipsy, numb lips means don't drive, etc) made it less YOU WILL DIE OOGA BOOGA to him.
Your mileage may vary.
Misty- I totally get what you mean. I feel that way about porn, for example: even if I hear again and again that men just DO look at porn and it's no big deal, it IS a big deal to me. I even feel it with non-morality things, such as the hot water in the shower: if I would LIKE him to leave me some hot water, why DOESN'T he??
ReplyDeleteThe vegetarian example is a good one for me, because it's not so much that drinking is a big deal and that's why I don't want to give it up, it's that it's something I LIKE (like meat) and I don't want to give that up arbitrarily, because of what someone ELSE wants. And yet...that's what I want from HIM when it's something like porn, and he could use the same vegetarian example, so, er.
Doze off in the recliner each night, 15 min before bedtime, sans alcohol and see what happens after 5 days of that.
ReplyDeleteAsk him to stop drinking Mountain Dew (or whatever it is he drinks). Because it bothers you. And you don't like the effect the sugar/caffeine has on him. Or ask him to stop playing World Of Warcraft (or whatever his geeky little heart does) and give him the chance to see what it feels like to be forced to give something up that you enjoy in moderation.
ReplyDeleteOooh, *someone's* feeling a wee bit bitchy tonight...
Have you guys considered counseling? I really think you should give it a go. A third party could give you both some perspective. Try finding one you like; get recommendations from people you know, or just call a few up.
ReplyDeleteIt's good that you two are talking, though. But I don't know how much more talking is going to do for you. When you said Mike was crying because you crashed on the recliner (I too do this...at 9 PM, no alcohol involved), his big reaction surprised me. The way you describe your drinking doesn't seem like someone who's got a problem, but Mike sees it that way. A counselor may help you guys meet in the middle.
Best of luck with all this.
You're probably not going to like what I've got to say, but a few things that you have written trouble me. The fact that you do drink liquor, and seemingly only do so (quickly) to get buzzed, worries me. The fact that the drinking is intertwined with your feelings about sex worries me. The depth of rationalization/justification worries me. I think that counseling (for you and husband) might be a good thing for all. I'm not writing this to scold, or to judge, but just because several things, well, worry me.
ReplyDeleteI know how you can show him the difference between bring drunk and having a drink. I'll take some videos of my friends being rip-roaring drunk and you can show him that HEY at least you don't pee in the fridge!! haha....
ReplyDeleteThis is way interesting to me. I don't drink at all and my husband and all his family members drink (my sister & her husband do too). My husband used to drink quite a bit more than he does now and it used to bother me occasionally.
ReplyDeleteI'll admit that I don't fully grasp the concept of recreational drinking. I really don't like to drink (I get wicked, wicked sick) and so, it's hard for me to imagine that other people just really LIKE it, love it and have it as a regular part of their lives. It's not a value judgment, though, if you know what I'm saying.
To me, the certain way to tell that you don't have a problem with alcohol (or, that he doesn't have a problem with, say, porn or whatever) is that you are honestly examining and considering all the factors and variables involved. In my experience, problem drinkers don't do a whole lot of that (unless they're getting sober.)
Andrew Weil has a great book called 'From Chocolate to Morphine' or something like that, about the use of mind-altering substances. It's a great resource and his take is unique and interesting.
I'm way late to the party on this (catching up on my constance reading today!) - but Mike reminds me very much of most members of my family. They don't drink and are very uptight about it - the fact that his mom was that way would doubly annoy me because we know what a pain in the ass she was - and that he is being like her would really really annoy me. That said - falling asleep in the recliner is a ridiculous thing to get upset about - WHO DOESN'T fall asleep in the recliner - and he was crying? I would roll my eyes at him and ignore that.
ReplyDeleteI like what Sundry said on your other post - you use alcohol like someone else might use Xanex - it's medicinal more than pleasurable.
Those who think you need therapy - well, I think that is really over-the-top. You're very self-aware and you and Mike discuss things. I don't see alarm bells for therapy in anything here.