Sunday, February 28, 2010

Further Thoughts on Alcohol

It took me nearly a week to talk to Mike about his drinking-related remarks. He'd emailed me those comments from work and I hadn't replied because I didn't know what to say; when he came home he was fretful about my non-reply and worried that he'd upset me, and my response was something along the lines of "DUH!"

One marriage issue we have (it can be negative or positive depending on what is going on) is that Mike is the Flare Up And Forget It type, whereas I am a Resentful Brooder. So, like, the next day he'd forgotten about the whole thing and was cheery and normal, and I was still feeling flattened. This does buy me time to think.

With a subject like alcohol, I didn't even KNOW what I thought about what he'd said. On one hand I thought he was wrong; on the other hand, isn't it CLASSIC that people with alcohol problems don't think they have a problem? I mean, that's why the first step is ADMITTING IT: because it's so standard NOT TO.

And no one in my family/friends has been a Public Alcoholic---that is, surely there were alcoholics in my family/friends just as in anyone else's, but I never saw anyone I knew was drunk, nor did I ever look back and think, "Ohhhhh, I see, she was an ALCOHOLIC!," nor did anyone I knew ever participate in an alcohol program or have a DUI or liver problems or a red nose or ANYTHING. The only drinkers in our family are more the "two whiskey sours before dinner when we have guests" type. So what do I know about what's a normal/dangerous level of alcohol? Maybe Mike was RIGHT.

So all week I kept thinking of points, and of reasons why the points might be no good.

Point: I haven't had a drink for a week. I have way more trouble giving up sweets---and in fact have probably never managed to give up sweets for a week. Surely that means I don't have a problem (except maybe with sweets).

Counterpoint: People with drinking problems are always claiming to be able to take it or leave it. And the fact that I don't like giving it up might Mean Something.


Point: Yes, I'd prefer to drink, so of course I mind giving it up. There are lots of things I'd rather not give up, but that doesn't mean I have a PROBLEM. I don't want to give up pizza, either, and if I tried to give it up I'd probably think about it every day, but that doesn't mean I should attend a Pizzaholics Anonymous meeting, it just means I like pizza and I don't want to stop eating it.

Counterpoint: Whenever anyone says they DON'T have a problem, that's usually used as evidence that they DO.


Point: I've never had a hangover.

Counterpoint: I don't know if a person has to have hangovers for it to be a problem.


Point: A commenter on the last post said she was an alcoholic from an alcoholic family and that I sounded like an alcoholic too.

Counterpoint: It's always hard to interpret things said to/from a stranger---either party could be misunderstanding/misrepresenting the situation. And my guess is that to an alcoholic, pretty much everyone sounds like an alcoholic.


Point: I seem to have a high tolerance for alcohol. I can drink four shots of vodka and feel only slightly tipsy. Me drinking "a lot" is not the same as someone with a lower tolerance drinking a lot.

Counterpoint: Maybe the high tolerance means I'm Different From Other People, and D.F.O.P. might mean Alcoholic Tendencies. Also, maybe I THINK I'm only tipsy but I'm actually drunk. There are probably people who have NO IDEA how drunk they are when they're drunk. Also: my LIVER might not have a high tolerance---so I could be doing drunk damage for only a tipsy benefit. Perhaps this means alcohol is not the right Vice Of Choice for me and I should try pot instead (KIDDING).


Point: I've never had a problem remembering what happened when I was drinking, or regretting my behavior afterward. I'm pretty sure that means I'm only tipsy.

Counterpoint: Maybe I AM having trouble remembering, but I'm not remembering it.


Point: But if I SMELL bad!

Counterpoint: We don't really know what Mike meant by that, or if maybe he's motivated by something else.


Point: If a family member confronts me about drinking, that means a problem, doesn't it?

Counterpoint: Not if that family member answered Child #1's "What does someone act like when they're 'drunk'?" by saying, "Sometimes the person is sleepy, or acts a little silly, or gets a little cranky." That's really NOT a definition of drunkenness. I would have said more like "Sometimes the person falls down, or falls asleep in the front yard, or crashes the car, or sings loudly in public, or gets in a fist-fight, or can't remember the next morning what they did."


Point: But if I don't KNOW if I have a problem or not, doesn't that mean I probably DO?

Counterpoint: Or it could mean I lack sufficient points of reference, tend to overthink things, and am confused by someone who ALSO lacks sufficient points of reference.


ANYWAY. So finally I talked with Mike about it, and it was a good talk and it went well. It sounds to me as if his main concern was worrying that I was drinking "sneakily," and he asked if I could continue drinking as before but bring my drink to where we both were instead of drinking it elsewhere. Which would be fine, except that I hate the taste of alcohol so I drink it fast: I pour a shot, mix it with juice or soda, and slug it back. So then we started joking about how I should bring that into the living room and clear my throat ostentatiously so he could watch while I slugged it back, or how we should have a PA system for announcements: "Attention spouse! I am Taking A Drink!"

Also, it turned out that he was concerned because I'd gone through more than a bottle of vodka in a week (ug, I hate the feeling of being MONITORED), but that was the week I made a quart of vanilla. Using a quart of vodka.

And he was also upset because he said it changed my sleeping habits, and I said, "You mean the way I go to sleep within 5 minutes like you do, instead of lying awake for an hour fretting?" and he was like, "..." And he said it made me "listless" in the evenings and I asked if he'd noticed I was ALWAYS listless in the evenings, and that I thought "mellow and listless" was better than "fretting and listless," and again he was like, "..."

And he said the booze smell he meant was only on my breath, not coming from my pores.

And I brought up our differing definitions of drunk, and how different people have different tolerances, and I asked if he thought I'd been ACTING drunk, and he said he guessed he didn't really know anything about it and might have been worried about nothing. He said he'd been concerned, and I said it hadn't sounded like concern, it had sounded like contempt, and he said he was sorry and had over-cheesed me. And I talked a little more about how I didn't like the way he'd brought it up OR the tone he'd used, and also how I didn't KNOW if he was right or not.

So now he's feeling bad about it and doing conciliatory things, and I'm still fretting about what if I DO have a problem. My plan is to go back to drinking when I want to, but it seems like it's not a bad thing at all to be frequently thinking about it and being aware of it.

25 comments:

  1. I know I'm not like in your living room or kitchen WATCHING how much you drink but from all that you've written here now and in the past, I really REALLY DO NOT think you have a problem with alcohol. AT ALL.

    I think you made a good point with the pizza thing. Also, you are a worry/anxious person like I am and duh, so yeah, we like a drink to relax us/mellow us out.

    You have a problem with alcohol when you are drunk all day, drink it for breakfast, do things WAY out of character, wake up your kids in the middle of the night and throw them in the car so you can go buy alcohol because you ran out at home.

    I mean, there are a thousand things/behaviors/actions that could indicate a problem, but I just really don't think you have one, for what it's worth.

    And I'm glad you talked to Mike about it because it seems like he really didn't mean it the way it came out in the email.

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  2. Okay, so I say this coming from a family of alcoholics who occasionally drinks and gets introspective about substance use and abuse. I do not think you have a problem. Like, I certainly wouldn't stop hanging out with you or plan an intervention for you or something similar. But, ultimately, it's not about what I or other commentators or even what Mike thinks -- what do YOU think?

    Do you think about when you get to have your next drink? Can you live without alcohol in the house. Do you plan out your alcohol consumption more than the other parts of your life? Can you stop, or do you have "just one more"? Does the fact that you drink occasionally bother you or make you feel guilty?

    There's a difference between using a substance and abusing a substance. Each person's "use" and "abuse" limits are different and what would be "abusing" for one person can absolutely be "using" for another. My mother cannot have alcohol. Period. I enjoy an occasional beer couple times a month and get really wild on St. Patrick's Day, Fourth of July and Christmas Eve. I have a friend who's entire job is to taste and judge and think about beer (I couldn't do this... I would slide into the "abuse" realm).

    Also, I'm sorry it's tough. It's hard to have conversations about this thing, because I don't know that our society talks about it intelligently or with forethought (kind of like sex!). I look forward to seeing how you run with this.

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  3. You know the part that really worries me after reading this post? You start off saying that you prefer to drink and dont want to give it up...then say you hate the taste of alcohol. Perhaps there is something to analyse in that as to whether there is a problem or not.

    Of course I dont know you in real life and I certainly dont want to offend you, but that really jumped out at me. I think it is probably a good topic for you to over-think if it leads to some clarity?

    Good luck with figuring it all out and making decisions whichever way.

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  4. Ack! This is all so worrying and full of fretting and clearly there are no easy answers. I would say I don't think you have a problem but that isn't a fair assessment from someone who has never met you IRL and who doesn't "know" you. I think some of the previous commenters have valid points and I am anxious to read what everyone else says.

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  5. I just don't think you have a problem. I have SEVERAL alcoholics in my family and you don't seem to be one. JMO.

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  6. I don't think you have a problem. I also think, hey, what's wrong with smoking a little pot? I know a lot of people who prefer to smoke a bowl than have a few drinks. Whatever gets you through the night, right?

    Anyway, no judgin' here.

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  7. But Heather, alcohol TASTES YICKY! If it came in pill form, I would take that. I like the FEELING but not the TASTE. Same with coffee, although eventually I came to appreciate the taste of it as long as it's loaded with sweetened creamer.

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  8. Alison- I totally agree. I say "KIDDING" for two reasons: (1) I think I'm in enough trouble talking about LEGAL substances and (2) I can just picture me trying to buy pot: "Excuse me, young man on the corner! Can you tell me where I can buy mare-uh-WAN-uh? Oh I see. And does it ever go on sale?"

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  9. I am SO glad you and Mike had this talk. I wanted to jump in on the last post and say "Oh, Constance, you certainly don't have a drinking problem! Stop being silly!" But then I thought about it and realized that I have no idea if you have a drinking problem because the definition of "problem" is different for everyone. Sure, there's a line that defines problem for EVERYONE, but before that are smaller, less obvious lines. Does that make any sense?

    Anyhow, for what it's worth I had a therapist tell me that the minute you felt like you couldn't make it through the day without a particular substance, you were halfway down the road to addiction. My personal vice wasn't alcohol, but it applies. If you feel like you cannot wait until it's "drinking time" or you find yourself planning things around being able to drink, then it's time to step away from the vodka.

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  10. Someone once told me that the definition of being an alcoholic is that every time you drink, you mess up your life in some major way. Meaning, I guess, the alcohol is control of YOU and instead of you in control of it.

    Oh, crap, our dinner guests just arrived... I'll get back to you more on this later!

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  11. It seems like, according to AA, EVERYone would have a problem because their reality is that no one can say "I don't have a problem" and actually mean it. I hate that logic.

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  12. Constance,

    I kind of want to know how often you drink. I know people who drink every day and have for years. I kind of think that is too much, although they are honestly and truly comfortable with it, and don't feel at all like they have a problem. Also, they are certainly not getting extremely drunk, and even if they were, they would be affecting no-one but themselves adversely.

    I have, during times of stress, (bad marriage/divorce) drank more than I felt comfortable with ie. enough alcohol to feel very tipsy many nights in a row.

    When I became uncomfortable with how much I was drinking, and my life was a little less stressful, I stopped drinking for a few weeks or a month until I felt comfortable with my alcohol consumption/regulation issues.

    During those times of stress though, the alcohol really helped my get through by giving me a brief respite from my pain and stress.

    Because I love drinking booze, and I am nervous about being an alcoholic (because of family tendency), I try to be honest with myself and examine my drinking habits regularly to make sure I am not getting out of control.

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  13. Speaking as an alcoholic, I am loathe to ever make assumptions about whether someone else has a problem or not. I find it quite different from how I feel about, say, super-processed carbs, where I sort of believe they fuck EVERYONE up, even though it's only something I've noticed about myself.

    Anyhoo, here's what makes me think you don't have a problem, among other things: you don't enjoy the process of drinking. The act of drinking is not a pleasure. I think most drunks are able describe their once-favorite drinks in near-pornographical terms, you know? (Say, let me tell you about the drops of condensation on a cold gin and tonic on a hot summer day, the lime a lovely smile of green, the cubes gently clinking...) It seems like you use alcohol medicinally and sanely, and I guess some people might object to that, but to me it sounds no different than taking a Xanax for anxiety or anything else along those lines.

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  14. From the information you've provided, it doesn't sound like you are an alcoholic. My uncle is most certainly an alcoholic and I would say if you find yourself in the position of stumbling from the family Christmas party at 7 p.m. or having six drinks within two hours and arguing with various family members and then NOT REMEMBERING A THING the next day, then you might want to reconsider.

    Everyone has different levels of alcohol consumption they feel comfortable with, probably mostly based on how they were raised. The fact that I was in a bar several nights as a week because it was the social thing my parents did before they went home means I have a much different view on alcohol than my husband, whom only within the last few years has enjoyed a beer with his dad (we are 29). I think it is natural for someone who has never really been around alcohol to think a drink most nights a week is an "issue" whereas in my family, we look at each other strangely if we don't have a drink.

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  15. I commend you for being able to have an open, honest, and thorough discussion of this with Mike. That's great!

    And to me is sounds like you would drink like a person who has a glass of wine each night after putting the kids to bed. No more than that.

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  16. I think (but don't KNOW) that if you had a problem, it would affect other people more than Mike complaining about alcohol-breath.

    Geez - try to post anonymously and my word verification is "login".

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  17. I think the other commenters have made valid points. My stepfather was an alcoholic, although I didn't realize it at the time. He was a friendly drunk, I guess. He subsequently died as a result of his disease, and not in a pretty way, either.

    I suspect my mother is an alcoholic. She drinks 3 or 4 tumblers of JD on the rocks and gets pretty stupid. When I was in high school, after my stepdad moved out, she would yell at me about the dumbest things. When I was 30 and visiting her for the weekend, we got into an argument about something dumb and she told me she hated the person I'd become. I told her I was leaving the next day and I wouldn't be bringing my daughter back to see her at her house until she got help. She hasn't got help to my knowledge, but she didn't seem to be drinking (at least around me) until I saw her last weekend. Now I don't know what to think and I hate it.

    All that to say, I don't know you, but I'm glad that you're talking to Mike and thinking about it. Neither of the alcoholics in my life did that. We still don't talk about it because I'm effing tired of arguing with mom. It doesn't sound like you have a problem to me, though.

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  18. I'm going to start out with the same disclaimer about how clearly, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING. But seriously, it does not sound like you have a problem. Like, AT ALL.

    I come from a long & rich line of alchies and alcohol SERIOUSLY DISRUPTED their ability to live normal lives. (whatever normal is)

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  19. I think it's very important that you and Mike can sit down and talk about this, calmly and rationally and that he can back down and admit that maybe he was wrong and concerned for no reason. I also very much like the way he pointed out that it had changed your sleeping habits, and you pointed out that you now fell asleep easily like he does, instead of laying awake fretting for an hour and he was shocked because he didn't realize that before. Good signs from him.

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  20. I'm a recovering alcoholic and I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was an alcoholic. And maybe I'm the devil's advocate or something, but I understand where Mike is coming from in regards to the sneaky drinking. My dead fiance (who drank himself to death) would try to hide his drinking from me because he was ashamed. I asked him to please just do it in front of me and let me love him anyway. He denied it for a long time, but in the end? He did. Because if drinking meant he had to hide from me, I couldn't stand it. At least this way I got to spend time with him.

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  21. I had a very similar experience to yours...my husband grew up in a family that didn't drink, and a few years into our marriage I started buying alcoholic drinks occasionally. At first it really bothered him (although he was less forthright about it than Mike!), but now that some time has passed (I guess when he saw that I wasn't going to turn into a wino), he's the one bringing it home, in the hopes of getting lucky that night! So I'm guessing Mike's going to see the merits of the situation soon enough. ;)

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  22. My family is full of alcoholics so I'm hyper-conscious of my own drinking and the drinking patterns of those around me. Although I wouldn't describe you as an alcoholic, I do think it's a problem that you are using alcohol as a drug. It's not a social thing for you, or a pleasant addition to a meal. It's a bad-tasting drug that you take to alleviate anxiety and lack of passion. You're self-medicating, and that's probably not a good thing. I work in a very high-stress industry and I've seen many people go from having just one drink after work to carrying a sports bottle full of mixed drink at all times. Instead of getting help dealing with the stress and anxiety, they medicate with alcohol (and/or other drugs) and it doesn't help in the long-term.

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  23. Was on vacation so late to the party. What I am taking away from this isn't the drinking, but maybe not bringing up such potential hot topics in EMAIL for goodness sake!

    If Mike thinks there is a problem about something then he needs to man up and speak to you about in person. That would clear up everything much sooner AND might help with the brooding. I brood too, just for the record. 8-)

    I'm glad you cleared the air and if I weren't knocked up I'd totally raise a shot in your honor!

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  24. Your Personal TrollMar 2, 2010 08:39 PM

    If you have to drink to have sex, it's not a problem with the drinking, it's a problem with the sex.

    On the other hand, if you're using alcohol to lubricate your STRESS LEVEL or ANXIETY LEVEL, then you need to check out your STRESSORS and ANXIETORS, because those are obviously PROBLEMS. Alcohol just covers em up, doesn't fix em. But, guess what? People do this all the time and it doesn't kill em and it doesn't hurt em. So do it if it helps.

    So, are you an alcoholic? No, probably not. Is there anything wrong with the amount you drink? No, seems not to be. Should you drink less? Up to you. Definitely not up to Mike.

    I'm glad, though, that he wasn't being mean-- I was sad for a bit there, I'm glad he was just bumbly and not grumbly.

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  25. I'm really late to the conversation but have been thinking about this post quite a lot. I grew up in a family that didn't drink AT ALL and my mom has a pretty low opinion of alcohol and those who consume it. Hubby's family has wine with dinner every night and drinks frequently but almost never to excess and I wouldn't say they are alcoholics, just wine lovers who can handle it. I've found that over the last 4 years I drink a lot more than I ever did before and recently started to worry about it so your fretting post was spot on for me and the comments were helpful. I don't think I'm an alcoholic but denial...ack! Anyway, thanks for raising this topic and checking in with us on your progress.

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