Remember when I said I wasn't going to post vents about religion anymore? Er, yes. Well. Here is the thing: it turns out I still want to.
BUT! I wonder if this will help at all:
1. A lot of my religion issues are also FAMILY issues, and you know how those always get pretty tangled and complicated. My dad was a minister, my mom was a Christian school teacher, so....I mean, you know how there are things that if anyone else says/does them it's fine, but if your parents or in-laws do it it's So Annoying or whatevs? Religious Issues can be like that for me: all tangled up with Childhood Issues and Parent Issues. A lot of times it's not as much about religion as it seems to be.
2. So I don't MEAN to be attacking religion in a nasty, slingy way.
3. And I don't WANT to hurt you.
4. I am aware that, nevertheless, attackiness comes across from vents. I certainly don't like to read vents about things that are important to ME, and also it makes me feel like maybe the venter likes me less because it IS important to me.
5. But I adore YOU, and if YOU are religious I'm not intending to be all nose-to-nose with you, poking you in the collarbone with my forefinger in a "Whatcha gonna do about it, huh?" way.
6. It's more that I have Religious Issues. And that this is actually a pretty good place to work through them, if it's possible to work through them. And so I'm going to now and then.
7. But I'm really hoping not to hit anyone with Vent Shrapnel. And if I do, I have a tweezers and a box of bandaids ready.
Okay. On to it.
My family has belonged to a lot of denominations. All of the denominations I'm familiar with believe that we are supposed to pray to God to ask him for what we want, and that sometimes he says yes and sometimes he says no. This is pretty soft for God, isn't it? If we get what we want, he gets credit, but he never has to take blame.
Well, I do get that, though. I've had things that I wanted, and I didn't get them, and then later I was REALLY GLAD I didn't get them. Boys I wanted to date. Jobs I wanted. Classes I wanted to get into. Personality traits I wanted. All things that I would have fervently prayed for, and then had to conclude that God had answered "No," and then later would have thought, "Oh! It was for my own good!" This all makes sense to me, even though it's a little annoying when I hear my parents giving God the credit for their own hard work and and good ideas.
I've also never struggled with the common problem of "How could God let airplanes crash?" or "How could God let a mother die of cancer?" or "How could God let that tree fall on that house?" All of those things make sense to me: we live in a habitat, and sometimes our interactions with our habitat are damaging or fatal. Some of it is our fault and some of it is not, but it makes sense to me that God would not be going around putting out fires, putting cars back over the yellow line, catching falling trees, catching airplanes.
Besides, the "How could he?" category mostly falls nicely into the yes/no answers thing. Maybe God keeps airplanes from crashing A LOT, but of course we wouldn't know that he'd done so. Maybe he OFTEN cures illness, and we wouldn't know if it was God or the medical treatment. Maybe he OFTEN makes a tree fall a different direction.
And maybe when he chooses not to stop the plane from crashing or the tree from falling, he has a really good reason that is just not immediately apparent, like when I didn't get a job I really, really wanted, and then a year later the person who was hired instead of me got into enormous trouble because of systems set up by the previous employee. Whew! Lucky! Or when someone's house is destroyed by a tree while they're all at the store---maybe there was fatal mold in the house, or maybe the roof would have collapsed in the night the next day, or maybe it would have burned down the next week. So this all makes sense to me, too.
Here's the sticking point to me: that we're supposed to accept that God might say yes to getting us a date, getting us a job, keeping our plane from crashing, helping us avoid an accident, preventing us from being killed in a fire, helping us find our car keys---but that he would choose not to step in when a baby or child is being molested or abused. Or when a baby or child is kidnapped and violated and tortured and killed, and the parents never know what happened. I can't see any justification at all for saying "No" to a baby or child who is screaming or silent in terror and pain, while saying "Yes" to the lady praying that her cat will come home safely.
All the denominations I've been involved with agree that this sucks. It's not like anyone's saying this is a GOOD thing that God allows babies and children to be molested and tortured and beaten and burned. But when I was a Christian, the answer I was taught to give people who wondered this sort of thing was that it was an issue of free will (evidently God is unable to make distinctions between "utter freedom" and "freedom to do what doesn't affect others' free will"), or that it wasn't possible for us humans to understand the mind of God. That we needed to have faith that even when we didn't understand his ways, God was still right and good, and we could cling to that knowledge even in the storms of doubt.
I choose not to. Even if my faith were suddenly restored and religion made sense to me again rather than seeming exactly like believing in Santa Claus, I would CHOOSE NOT TO follow a leader who can IN ANY WAY justify that decision. Maybe I'm wrong not to trust that he has good reasons. I don't really care. I wouldn't accept Secret Reasons For Horror from anyone who was asking to direct my life and guide me down a path. I wouldn't follow or trust that kind of leader, even if he seemed good in many other ways, even if he told me I could believe him that he had good reasons for everything.
Exactly the way I feel, Constance One. Exactly. Thanks for sharing. :)
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to understand isn't it? I know I don't understand why bad things happen to babies and children. I can't even pretend to.
ReplyDeleteI consider myself a religious person. I am Catholic. I go to church every week.
ReplyDeleteBut I don't understand this either. I know some people think good things happen because of God and bad things happen because of the devil. I think that's way too easy, and I don't believe it. Does God really listen to prayers like, "Dear God, please let my high school football team beat this other high school football team?"
I consider myself to be fairly religious, too, and I agree with everything you said. My personal way of thinking about bad things that happen is that if the world had NO bad things, then we wouldn't fully appreciate the good things in life. But I am with you 100% that there is NO POSSIBLE REASON for child molestation, cruelty, or torture.
ReplyDeleteIt makes no sense; something that horrifying can't make that child a stronger person or teach them a valuable lesson, and there's plenty of other terrible stuff in the world to make them appreciate life without having to live in (or die in) that kind of hell.
Like -R-, I don't buy the "work of the devil" argument, either. I just...I don't get it at ALL.
I see this whole thing as: God gave us free will and sometimes we do bad things and sometimes we do good things. That is our free will, and he can try to have some influence to make sure good things happen but sometimes that influence doesn't work. If it did, then it wouldn't be free will, it would be always God's will.
ReplyDeleteSo yeah, bad things suck, the really do. I find this book really interesting for topics like this: http://www.amazon.com/Case-Faith-Journalist-Investigates-Christianity/dp/0310234697/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240500323&sr=8-1
I agree with you exactly. I don't WANT to believe in a god that would do a lot of things. The hurting babies thing is definitely one of them, but there are others. Organized religion, for the most part, is another example. Having strange rules where if you do terrible things but ask for forgiveness, you can go to heaven, but if you are a good and moral person who doesn't believe in god, you go to hell, is a third. I don't WANT to believe in a god that would run the world that way.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, you've never made me mad with your religion posts. I completely understand where you're coming from and I had a similiar upbringing myself. Everything you're saying here, I've thought many times. And here's what I've concluded: God never takes away free will from people. If He did, it would upset completely the way the world works, and the way it works is that humans are capable of choosing incredible kindness and compassion and beauty, as well as unspeakable evil and selfishness. You can't really have one without the other, or it's not a choice, and it is rendered meaningless.
ReplyDeleteSo maybe God can and does choose to keep your car from sliding into a ditch or your kid from getting the flu, because that doesn't involve making another person do something against his will. But will He FORCE a person not to do something that the person has his heart set on doing, even if that something is truly evil? I don't think so. I think He will put up barriers and roadblocks to try to persuade them otherwise. But He will not FORCE them to change their minds if they reject all of His nudging and reminding, even if it breaks His heart to see what they're doing to themselves and others.
I love the way you think about things, C1. You can totally look at every side of an arguement in a logical way, and it totally makes sense to me. Even stuff that is hard to write about!
ReplyDeleteBravo to you, Constance, for a (so far) civil discussion on this topic!
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on all points. I have heard people tell me not to judge God based on the actions of man but I don't understand how we're supposed to believe that he is all powerful and yet then CHOOSES to not intervene in child abuse? How about felling that tree on a child abusers head? That's a God I can get behind.
I'd say you never make me mad either, I think we all struggle with Religion, on some level, or have, and we all struggle with Family Issues too, so ...
ReplyDeleteI am a religious nut, and I struggle with the same issues that you discuss here. I especially struggle here lately, because I feel like my life is so HARD and my kid is AUTISTIC and my other kid is kind of NASTY and my next kid is UNKNOWN and blah blah blah and I think really? Really, God, this is what you want for me? I mean, I am being very selfish in my wondering, because I don't even spend my good time thinking about REALLY terrible things that happen to others, but just sort of annoying things that happen to me!
I rely heavily on the faith part of my Faith and I hope that all will be revealed to me someday. I don't trust any religion that subscribes to the idea that Evil people can go to Heaven just because they go to church or tithe or whatever but Good people go to Hell just because they struggle with what to believe.
I don't get offended by you either, Constance, because you are always so thoughtful.
ReplyDeleteI grew up a Christian but not going to church, but then I started in with church in college. After I graduated, I spent 6 weeks on a mission trip in Moscow, and teaching others about my faith made me realize how wacky it sounds. Virgin birth? Drink my blood? (Eew, as one of my religion profs once said)
I don't know the answers to these things either, but like Joanne, I rely on my faith. I feel that God moves in my life, and I feel that evil moves in my life, too. I feel that I am prodded in different directions by these forces, but the choices are mine to make.
One story, though, 'cause it's fun. Husby and me and all the kids were going to my dad's. On the interstate, we heard a rubbery flapping, but then it stopped. Some time later we pulled over for a break at a rest stop and checked the tires. The two rear tires were showing METAL but had not blown out. So we have one spare and two bad tires and we don't really know where we are. While we're scratching our heads, a big SUV parks next to us, and 8 people get out and ask if they can help. We explain our problem and the one guy helps get the worst tire off, pulls an air compressor out of the back of the SUV, pumps up the spare to the correct PSI. He owns an auto shop. Crazy. His friend has a son who lives nearby so he knows the area, and directs us to a Costco, where we are able to go right in and get new tires and have dinner. I think, what are the odds that THOSE people showed up next to us at that time with exactly what we needed?
Sorry this is long.
Amen!
ReplyDelete(He! That's a joke...get it? Get it?)
No really, I am feeling you.
I really like the comment that Sarah made above and I wanted to add my own little bit about how my faith makes sense to me. I've always been taught to view God like a father. One that loves you unconditionally and would do anything for you but sometimes it doesn't always work out the way we want. I tend to think that God would like to do anything that I would like to do to protect my kids. I would give anything/do anything to see my children safe and happy and I take all the steps I can to make that happen but some things are out of my control. I would never just LET or ALLOW anyone to hurt my children but sometimes I may just not be in a position to stop it and I think of God being in the same sort of position. I think that God gives the gift of free will so bad things might happen - and then, in that case, he becomes the parent that you go to for comfort and healing. I know I'm not saying this very eloquently but I just wanted to throw that bit out there.
ReplyDeleteI'm still not understanding this.
ReplyDeleteI don't see how the free will thing meshes with the "Thy will be done" and "If it be your will" stuff commonly used in prayer. I also don't see why God would have to let someone have free will at the expense of someone else's free will.
I can see how God might choose not to force someone to do something (like little robots carrying out his will)---but I don't see how he would choose not to STOP something from taking place. Or, if God sends people to help with flat tires, he should send people to help with a child who's being hurt. That seems like God Interference to the same degree.
If the leaders of a country were allowing child-rape to occur rather than preventing/capturing the rapists, and they were saying that we should just trust that their reasons would one day be revealed, I don't think any of the citizens of the country would have faith that the reasons would be revealed and good. But that's what citizens of the church do for their leader.
I would never ever ever deliberately put my children at the mercy of someone who would hurt them. And if there was anything--ANYTHING--I could do to save one of my children from being hurt, I would do it without even thinking---even if there was some reason I wasn't supposed to. God's hands aren't tied: he's all-powerful. He CHOOSES not to interfere. I don't like that, and I don't identify with that as a parent.
I agree, I have trouble viewing God as a Father, in the same way that my Father is, simply because my Dad is just human and can only do so much. I do think of the Church as I think of my parents, though - I love and respect my parents, but I don't always agree with them on everything. But because I disagree with them, I don't say "well, I used to come over and see you and care about your welfare and call you, but now I'm going to just never talk to you again and try not to think about you". I love them and I try to understand where they are coming from and I know above all else that they love me and that that can show itself it some FUNKY ass ways. There are things that the Church says with which I disagree, but (for me, obviously, this is a Personal thing) I'm not willing to give up on my relationship with my Church either.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that God sends people to fix my tire and I don't think that God can stop evil in the world. All I think God can do is help me to be reasonably happy in this world and be unreasonably happy with Him in the next. Obviously, I have to do a lot of Walking By Faith here, because sometimes I think really? Really I think that? It sounds silly to me, even, sometimes. But I do have Faith that it will all work out in some way that I can't understand, and that it's better to be in the next world when I'm supposed to be, and even if I'm wrong, what's the harm? All I've done is tried to live a life where I Do Unto Others and where I try to be a good person. But as I said, I do understand the struggle and the argument because it is very heavy and complicated, to understate it.
I really like your religion rants, actually.
ReplyDeleteI stopped praying for God to change/affect my circumstances almost twenty years ago. I don't try to figure out God's will for decisions without a moral component like which house to buy, which job to take, etc. - and I especially don't seek God's will thinking that he is somehow helping me evade life's pitfalls. I think that God has a plan for my life and that plan is for the person he wants me to become, not the house he wants me to live in or the bus he wants me to take. I cannot believe that God micromanages our circumstances in the way that many evangelicals assume, for precisely the reasons you've outlined here.
What I do believe is that the nature of the world and God's relationship to it has to be understood as a whole. It's not helpful to try to figure out why God would allow this or that particular crime or tragedy - we have to think more in terms of why the world has the character that it has, and if there is some better way for the world to be constructed. You hint at an alternative here, where the limit to free will is where it intersects with other people: I can make free choices, but my choices will never have an adverse impact on another person, either because God will strike me down, or because everyone is in a kind of bubble - we can see each other but we're not really exposed to each other the way we are now.
I can think of lots of reasons why that kind of world would ultimately be worse than this one. Perhaps the most important one is that it would be less real, a kind of virtual reality program with no real relationships or consequences.
Another alternative is for God to allow the kinds of minor everyday hurts we are all accustomed to putting up with, but draw a line beyond which no one can go. In some ways death is that line - the ultimate limitation to how much harm one person can inflict upon another.
Have you ever read The Shack? I'm also a non-Christian who seems to struggle with a lot of the same issues with religion that you do, and I ended up reading this book along with my book club. (Funny thing was, the book club is run by our chaplain's wife, and attended by a lot of other VERY Christian women...) The book made me think, and gave me *this author's* insight as to the Holy Trinity and some of those whys. It might be worth reading.
ReplyDelete~Constance the Traveled
I love your religious posts too, because they so very succinctly express what I have trouble saying myself.
ReplyDeleteI'm technically Jewish, but have been involved in way more Christian activities than Jewish ones. My parents weren't strict and we celebrated whatever holiday we wanted, especially ones involving presents and/or food.
Brian's parents are strict Baptists. They've accepted me but I know they're also VERY HAPPY when we accompany them to church.
And I'm jealous of them. I'm jealous of anyone who has that much blind faith in anything. I think it would be a very comforting way to live, believing that EVERYTHING is God's will. The point you bring up about children is the perfect example of why I'll never have complete faith.
And going through this fertility stuff I question the God thing a lot more - the fact that we're dying to be parents, the fact that should we ever get lucky enough we would do whatever it takes to give our child a safe, loving, fantastic life, and the fact that so many people who ARE parents didn't want to be or are abusers of children.
I don't get it and I don't think I ever will.
What a great post; thank you.
I would not follow this leader either. I don't believe this leader (or God, or whatever you want to call it) even exists in the BEING sense. I believe in the elements and protons and electrons and DNA and tissues bonded together and manifested as BEINGS and together these make up the world as we know it and also in the mystery of all the things and the wonder and anxiety that can provoke.
ReplyDeleteFor me, these things are MORE remarkable, MORE miraculous (not a good word for this discussion... something like "unexplainable" would make more sense) than attributing the way things are-- from the molecular level all the way up to the universal level-- to the workings of something divine.
But it doesn't have REASON. I don't think there is reason. But that doesn't mean (to me) that it doesn't have MEANING.
So, I'm religious. And I am one of those people who can't watch the news for fear of hearing a story about babies hurt and the like.
ReplyDeleteThis is how I sort of view it though. When God created this earth, He did not intend for it to be like some fun little project like an ant farm or something. I believe that He viewed us with favor, He gave us a beautiful planet, created us in His image and so forth. He also gave us free will, which we used and opted for sin. Ultimately, everything that transpired after that has occured in a "sinful" world. Death is here because of sin, horrible things, sad things, etc. I also believe that there IS an afterlife, one that does NOT involve anything affected by a human race that chose sin. No death, no sadness, no pain. And so forth.
I totally understand not understanding this, or wanting to serve a God who allows things to happen. But I sort of think, if there were no free will then we WOULD be robots, and if God stopped some sicko out there from committing his sick acts then He would not be allowing THAT person to choose free will. Also, where would the intervening stop? Only allowing babies to be saved? What about the 12 year old that is in a car crash? The 30 year old mother who gets stricken with cancer? The 50 year old waiting on his first grandchild to be born?
It is the VAST human suffering in this world that makes me into a non-believer. There is no reasoning on Earth that can convince me that genocide and the many other forms of human cruelty; drought, starvation, tsunamis and other natural events that cause such human devastation; alcoholism and other forms of drug addiction that crumble many lives around the afflicted can happen in a universe with a loving God. No. There is no God that would allow such suffering. These horrible things do not happen so that we can appreciate the good.
ReplyDeleteMy churches taught the free will vs robots explanation, too. But here's the thing: I live in a society where people aren't allowed to commit certain crimes, and if they're caught committing those crimes they're punished. Because humans aren't omniscient, the system isn't perfect--but it's intended to protect people. And yet, I don't feel like having those protections/consequences has turned us into a society of robots.
ReplyDeleteAlso, wouldn't Heaven then be a place of only robots, if no one is able to do bad things any longer?
My churches taught the "where do you draw the line?" thing, too (they do it for gay marriage and abortion a LOT), and I don't see that either. We draw the line all the time. We say that it's okay to get married when you're an adult, but not when you're 12. We say that it's okay to kill someone in self-defense, but not in anger. We say that it's okay to get a 70% on a test, but not okay to get a 40%. We don't say, "Marriage has to be for absolutely everyone or where do you draw the line?" or "Killing is killing, or else where do you draw the line?" or "It's 100% or it's failure, because otherwise where do you draw the line?" We draw the line, and we make adjustments to the line when they seem justified.
I am a non-believer for the same reasons of anonymous: suffering. There is no afterlife, but if we followed the teachings of Jesus, we would have Heaven on Earth.
ReplyDeleteWhat seems robotic to me is the way all the religious people chant about just have faith and free will and robots, and how God is always perfect and so if it seems like he isn't it's just because we're so dumb. Created dumb, I guess.
ReplyDeleteYikes. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything?
ReplyDeletePolitics and religion are two completely separate subjects for me, so yes, I agree that we should support a system that protects us and yes, I see that that system sometimes fails and yes I ALSO will say that the human race sometimes fails because it is also not a perfect system. We are flawed human beings, we are mostly good, we are inherintly sinful, we will fail ON EARTH. We will not fail in heaven, we won't be robots there, because we will have fulfilled a sometimes painful and sometimes joyous life on earth where we exercised our free will, where we chose a perhaps unpopular and a NOT EASY road of faith and that heaven is our reward.
For what its worth, I think gay marriage should be legal, I think pushing one's Christian beliefs on another is completely the opposite of what Christians are meant to do. I believe strongly in a separation of church and state and feel a huge amount of anger towards those who act as if they are the chosen ones here to exercise God's judgement. NO. Just, no.
That being said, if there is a line drawn, who are we to say where and when it should be? We are able to draw lines legally, that most people can agree on to keep a society safe, but what about a human race? We keep lines drawn to keep a person's quality and length of life as far as possible, but what about after THAT?
I think of God as Love, Caring, Compassion. I find God in fellowhip with friends and family and in the way humankind cares for the needy.
ReplyDeleteHeaven is not an issue. Intervening is not an issue.
Constance- Fighting with Christians, or trying to find a way that Christianity makes sense, is stupid and pointless. It's like boxing with shadows. It's like trying to argue with a mental patient.
ReplyDeleteFaith is a psychiatric problem, a delusion. Christians (and members of other religions, too, but we're talking about Christians here) first believe, and then force their perception of reality to conform to their beliefs. If you show them that their religion makes no sense, it has no affect whatsoever. It changes nothing about what they believe and is only frustrating to you. They will go in circles forever, deflecting everything you say with the arguments they've been taught in church, and hearing nothing that you say. Save your breath and spare the rest of us having to listen to Christians pretending to argue logically with you.
It's not that it's mean or offensive or hurtful to talk about religion, it's that it doesn't do any good. You won't understand it and they won't understand you. Come on, surely you remember that from your days as a Christian. Did you listen when people asked you questions, or were you just trying to persuade them of 'the truth'?
ReplyDeleteJenny- What I mean is that if even imperfect humans are able to draw the lines to run a pretty good society, a perfect God should be able to do it. He would know EXACTLY where to draw the lines, whereas all we can do is approximate and hope. What I mean is, that's why I don't think the "Where would he draw the line?" argument works for things like when should God intervene and when shouldn't he: he'd know when for sure, even if we couldn't figure it out. But since if he exists, he draws a line (or declines to draw a line) at a point that's unacceptable to me (yes to helping people develop patience and find their car keys and find a mate, no to sending help to a molested child), I'm choosing not to go along with it---just as I'd choose not to go along with a society leader who drew the line in a place I considered violently wrong. Not that government of a single country and the spiritual ruling of the entire universe are the same---just that there are parallels that help to explain things I mean when I talk about God's law and God's way of running things. Metaphor! That's the word I was looking for. Metaphor.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous (about when I was a Christian)- True that, yo. I believe I've said every single one of these arguments myself. Sigh. Hubris.
See, this is where it gets kind of weird for me. If you want to have a discussion about religion and how it affects you and your life, your relationships, etc., I think we can all get there quite easily, even if we disagree. I don't understand how a discussion in the comments between you, C1, and Anonymous, about how STUPID Christians are, nay, deluded and predictable and not worth your time, is in any way not meant to be hurtful or ... at least not productive. I think we can all identify with the struggle, but I don't see any struggle here anymore - you seem confident that what you believe is right, and commenters seem confident that what THEY believe is right, so ... what is the point of the discussion, exactly?
ReplyDeleteAnd I hope that doesn't sound all shitty, I truly don't mean it that way. I just - I hate that discussions about religion seem to devolve so quickly into "they're dumb for thinking this" or "you're dumb for thinking that".
ReplyDeleteJoanne- I know. I totally agree that no one should be saying things about deluded and not worth the time and so on. That was pretty...uh, OPINIONATED, Anonymous. I didn't intend to appear to be participating in that line of discussion at all (I was having a nice talk with Jenny), but I see my comment to Anonymous LOOKS like I was agreeing with the whole thing Anonymous was saying, when what I meant was something self-deprecating to defuse what I perceived as an attack on how stupid _I_ was. That Anonymous IS right that I HAVE said all those very free will etc. arguments myself, and so I'm a fine one to be saying I don't understand. I didn't mean to seem to be agreeing with the other parts of the comment.
ReplyDeleteI didn't answer the other Anonymous (the one who said faith is a psychiatric problem) AT ALL, because I thought that was SUPER RUDE---but it didn't QUITE cross the line into Deletable: I really hate to delete comments, unless they're truly vile, and that one was just kind of...um, opinionated on the other side of the situation, shall we say.
Sorry for any misunderstanding---I'm really NOT engaging in discussion with the anonymous commenters so far. So far I think I've responded only to people trying to clarify things for me, and I've responded to them about the parts I still don't understand. That still seems to me like valuable discussion.
Okay, I understand what you're saying. When I said "where would the line be drawn" I meant as in us assuming that God intervenes at times and does not at other times.
ReplyDeleteI really don't THINK that God is up there with an APPROVED stamp and a DENIED one and then designates them appropriately when requests reach Him. Rather, I think that what God has given us is blessings. I think He created us to be good. However, when sin was introduced to the world and the bad things happen I don't think that THOSE things come from God, they come from man. So, lets say that we have prayers and that we believe that God says yes to some and no to others. Why does he let one woman survive cancer and another one die? Well, really, both will die eventually. And instead of treating one like it was an answered prayer and the other like God chose not to intervene I see it as God granted both women life in the first place, and both will ultimately die on this earth. Do I think some deaths are more heinous and tragic than others? YES! But I also think that what we are meant to see is the product of sin, that this earth is NOT the end all be all, that there are moral codes to live by, that they were put in place by someone higher and that what we strive for is something unlike all these things.
If one of my children were to be kidnapped, abused and killed I would NOT just shrug my shoulders and say, "Oh well there is a reason for everything." No, I would probably become a suicidal depressed mess of a person for years. But would I feel that the tragedy of their death outweighed the blessing of their life? NO WAY. I would think that God granted me answers to my prayers by them being in my life, no matter how much the length of time, and that the end of their life came from man, NOT GOD.
So, I'm saying that I don't think God is intervening by letting us find our keys and the like. I think that every day is a day filled with miracles and blessings, and that we can't feel that God is granting us something one day only for Him to take it away the next. I'm saying that all bad things, from killing to stealing to lying come from man and no, I don't think God intervenes a lot. I think that the big miracles are thought of as "answered prayers" when no one really thinks of every day as an answered prayer.
And, uh, I don't know if that even makes sense in response to what you said. : )
And I really am hoping that I'm not starting to sound like a preachy born-again trying to convert the world!
ReplyDeleteSo it is due to my sins that I gat ovarian cancer at 28 and will never ever be able to have babies? And what sin could I possibly have participated in by age 9 when my father added sexual abuse to the physical and emotional abuse he was already sending my way?
ReplyDeleteAnd if it isn't due to my sin but rather sin in general, why did the ovarian cancer happen to me? Why did the sexual, physical and emotional abuse happen to me? Not to mention the friends and family I've lost because of cancer, accidents and suicide.
I can't believe in a god that would be THIS unfair and cruel. I wish I could.
Amen. I agree with everything you said.
ReplyDelete